Very true. The harm that was done in my former church by the pastor and his team was only intensified by the protection that those people received from the elders. I ran into a former elder nearly 5 years after I was pushed out. He said “it was a painful time for all of us.” I was stunned that he still could not see the difference between his complicity and my (and so many other’s) pain and trauma. Jesus, your church needs elders that protect the flock, not the pastor.
I have experienced this kind of cowardly leadership myself, even recently, and the part about “turning away from the many and preferring the one” hit hard. I’ve watched elders protect their own, protect leadership, and protect the institution when what the hurting person desperately needed was for someone with authority to have the courage to say, This is wrong. “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed.” Proverbs 31:8. 💜
When the pastor makes himself a governing head…he usually selects elders who are “yes” men and grants status and power to those who also are not always fully qualified to be elders so that everything revolves around him..in a small town, that kind of narcissistic personality has a reach beyond the small country church walls.
Cowardly elders! It is an epidemic. From huge churches like Gateway in TX to small churches where a single elder or a rogue pastor is unaccountable - this is a deep problem for the church today. Cowardly men, who are unwilling to speak the truth to bullies. To lay the honor of Christ on the table, and watch the poor / selfish / arrogant elders or pastors tremble.
My best friend's church is about to split because some of the elders insisted on replacing the retiring Sr. pastor with a young "rock star" pastor, rather than take the recommendation of the retiree (to install the respected Asst. Pastor, who is about 55 and would have been happy to serve for 5+ years and let the church find its vision). This group of elders reacted poorly when challenged, and so at least 1/3 of the church is leaving. Routine stuff, I suppose (sadly), but my friend told the elders they were in egregious sin (because the Session was not in unity), and their response was to ask him to leave. They had one and only one meeting on the topic. The congregation voted to adopt their choice, but only by 66-34. Would you want to be the shiny new pastor coming into that situation? Dealing with "Christian" bullies is very diffucult, because it is not obvious ugly sin (like adultery / fornication or embezzlement), but it has to be confronted just the same.
I apologize for the length but feel this is part of the root problem of eldership.
If you can find it , Erwin Lutzer, former senior pastor of Moody Church in Chicago, spoke painful truth upon his retirement during an interview with Moody Radio around 2011ish? The host asked him what DL Moody would have been proud to see happen under his leadership. He spoke truthfully about the churches efforts across the world but the openness of the church to the multiethnic city of Chicago. I think (don't quote me) they had over 50 different native language speakers among their membership.
Then he asked 'what would bother Moody". I almost drove off the road. There was a very real tremble in his voice. He confessed he bought into the corporate model of church leadership, of having a small group of supportive men with deep business experience to help him implement his visions and plans. He spent most of elder meetings on money, finances, and how the money would be spent. The model meant he invested in a few men who supported him.
He then went on to explain that Moody had something like 70 elders in a church only slightly larger than it was under Lutzer. Each of those elders committed one day of week to home visitation so the church knew exactly how their people were doing. Moody actually wrote about how local bars became acquainted with elders hunting down men who were drinking away and their children had no food. Every person had a personal meeting with an elder in their own home. Poverty was visible, abuse was visible, alcohol and drug usage was visible. It's one thing to say "everything is fine " on Sunday morning, another. thing for an elder to see no food or shoes. Singles were included. Those elders met with women by themselves long before Billy Graham rule alienated the women from getting pastoral care.
The needs, pain, suffering, and also good things of the congregation were front and center of the churches direction setting and vision. Recently when I shared this with an elder in our church the only comment was that's impractical.
you might check Moody radio archives at Moody Bible Institute. It was a radio program and an interview with him. I really couldn’t tell you what year it was other than after 2010 because I was out of business trip!
Very true. The harm that was done in my former church by the pastor and his team was only intensified by the protection that those people received from the elders. I ran into a former elder nearly 5 years after I was pushed out. He said “it was a painful time for all of us.” I was stunned that he still could not see the difference between his complicity and my (and so many other’s) pain and trauma. Jesus, your church needs elders that protect the flock, not the pastor.
Oh my goodness. I call that willful blindness.
I have experienced this kind of cowardly leadership myself, even recently, and the part about “turning away from the many and preferring the one” hit hard. I’ve watched elders protect their own, protect leadership, and protect the institution when what the hurting person desperately needed was for someone with authority to have the courage to say, This is wrong. “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed.” Proverbs 31:8. 💜
Yes that’s the perfect verse!
My experience has been cowardly elders not protecting good pastors from a domineering church member. Again, frequently because of financial control.
Yes that can happen too!
When the pastor makes himself a governing head…he usually selects elders who are “yes” men and grants status and power to those who also are not always fully qualified to be elders so that everything revolves around him..in a small town, that kind of narcissistic personality has a reach beyond the small country church walls.
So true whether in mega or small contexts.
Cowardly elders! It is an epidemic. From huge churches like Gateway in TX to small churches where a single elder or a rogue pastor is unaccountable - this is a deep problem for the church today. Cowardly men, who are unwilling to speak the truth to bullies. To lay the honor of Christ on the table, and watch the poor / selfish / arrogant elders or pastors tremble.
My best friend's church is about to split because some of the elders insisted on replacing the retiring Sr. pastor with a young "rock star" pastor, rather than take the recommendation of the retiree (to install the respected Asst. Pastor, who is about 55 and would have been happy to serve for 5+ years and let the church find its vision). This group of elders reacted poorly when challenged, and so at least 1/3 of the church is leaving. Routine stuff, I suppose (sadly), but my friend told the elders they were in egregious sin (because the Session was not in unity), and their response was to ask him to leave. They had one and only one meeting on the topic. The congregation voted to adopt their choice, but only by 66-34. Would you want to be the shiny new pastor coming into that situation? Dealing with "Christian" bullies is very diffucult, because it is not obvious ugly sin (like adultery / fornication or embezzlement), but it has to be confronted just the same.
What a stressful, painful situation!
I apologize for the length but feel this is part of the root problem of eldership.
If you can find it , Erwin Lutzer, former senior pastor of Moody Church in Chicago, spoke painful truth upon his retirement during an interview with Moody Radio around 2011ish? The host asked him what DL Moody would have been proud to see happen under his leadership. He spoke truthfully about the churches efforts across the world but the openness of the church to the multiethnic city of Chicago. I think (don't quote me) they had over 50 different native language speakers among their membership.
Then he asked 'what would bother Moody". I almost drove off the road. There was a very real tremble in his voice. He confessed he bought into the corporate model of church leadership, of having a small group of supportive men with deep business experience to help him implement his visions and plans. He spent most of elder meetings on money, finances, and how the money would be spent. The model meant he invested in a few men who supported him.
He then went on to explain that Moody had something like 70 elders in a church only slightly larger than it was under Lutzer. Each of those elders committed one day of week to home visitation so the church knew exactly how their people were doing. Moody actually wrote about how local bars became acquainted with elders hunting down men who were drinking away and their children had no food. Every person had a personal meeting with an elder in their own home. Poverty was visible, abuse was visible, alcohol and drug usage was visible. It's one thing to say "everything is fine " on Sunday morning, another. thing for an elder to see no food or shoes. Singles were included. Those elders met with women by themselves long before Billy Graham rule alienated the women from getting pastoral care.
The needs, pain, suffering, and also good things of the congregation were front and center of the churches direction setting and vision. Recently when I shared this with an elder in our church the only comment was that's impractical.
This is so good. Where can I find the original source quoting Lutzer?
you might check Moody radio archives at Moody Bible Institute. It was a radio program and an interview with him. I really couldn’t tell you what year it was other than after 2010 because I was out of business trip!
Oh that's super compelling!
I wonder if the church grew so big underunder Dwight Moody more because of this act of pastoring than his fiery sermons.😄
Elders.
Shivers.